User talk:Anagram16

Welcome

Hello, Anagram16, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Our intro page provides helpful information for new users—please check it out! If you need help, visit Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on this page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Happy editing! Phil wink (talk) 01:50, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

...and a question

At Syllabic verse you stated, of Polish verse, "Today 9-syllable lines are extremely popular. They are iambic or choriambic." This seems unclear to me. If you are referring to 9-syllable syllabic verse, then surely it wouldn't be iambic or choriambic, right? it would just be syllabic. On the other hand, if the 9-syllable lines are iambic or choriambic, then they must be foot-based, or ictic, or syllabo-tonic (or whatever you'd like to call them), right? and therefore not germane to a discussion of syllabic verse? I don't know anything about Polish verse, so can you clarify your meaning? Thanks much. Phil wink (talk) 01:50, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

New page

Hi. Now I'm stalking you a little. Sorry. I noticed your new page Sebastian Grabowiecki. Thanks. As you'll see I've added a little furniture to it. It's pretty slight, and as I understand it, the criteria for new pages have become a bit more stringent recently, so I just wanted to make sure that if a peevish editor came across it, it would look as much like a "real" article as possible (although I certainly think it's sufficiently encyclopedic to avoid deletion). I will mention (in case you didn't know and are interested) that you may translate content from other language Wikipedias (in this case, pl:Sebastian Grabowiecki) and use it here. The process is discussed at Wikipedia:Translation#How to translate. Cheers. Phil wink (talk) 05:43, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't know if you've put it on your watchlist (I highly recommend this), so I'll mention that I've posted a suggestion at Talk:Sebastian Grabowiecki. Phil wink (talk) 23:35, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Keep conversations together

Please keep conversations together. If you're responding to a post on your talk page, respond on your talk page, below the post you're responding to. Don't add a new heading, and indent your response by starting it with :. If you're responding to something on an article talk page, respond on the article talk page, in the same way: below the post you're answering, no new heading, indented. If you're responding to a post that's already indented, just add one more colon to the beginning of your text. You should add a new heading if you are starting a new topic on the page, but if you're adding to an existing discussion, just indent underneath. Thanks. Phil wink (talk) 16:26, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I understood. Sorry for mistakes. (Anagram16 (talk) 19:12, 21 July 2016 (UTC))

No problem. No one begins knowing how to do this stuff. You've got a lot to contribute to an area of Wikipedia which has very few active editors, and terrible global coverage, so I hope you will continue and make thousands and thousands of edits here. If I'm being a little ... bossy ... it's only because -- when you begin working with other editors -- I wish you to seem as intelligent as you clearly are. With that in mind, I notice that you've been putting your signature on the line below your posts. There's nothing really wrong with that, but there are 2 reasons you'll probably want to put it on the same line right after your text (as I altered your post above to do): (1) When Wikipedia renders regular text into html for display, single carriage returns (I'm old -- that's what I call them) just disappear, so visually your signature will just get moved to the end of the previous line anyway. (2) If you've indented your text with : (as I've added to your post above), then you have to remember to put the same number of colons at the beginning of your signature line, or else it'll outdent like this:

Phil wink (talk) 02:21, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

...which will be a little confusing and look bad. But you can just ignore this whole problem if you put your signature right at the end of your text on the same line.

On another topic please do include an inline reference for every verse text you quote (whether original or translation -- although of course translations by Wikipedians don't need a reference). We are terrible at this. There are verse texts all over without any inline reference at all, even though obviously they are direct quotes. So I'm not asking you to be as good as other Wikipedians, but to be better. At a minimum, the reference should include the basic identity of the lines, e.g. the <ref>Jan Kochanowski, "Tren 13" (Lament 13), lines 1-2.</ref> I added to Polish alexandrine. However, even better would be this information plus the actual bibliographic source, e.g. the <ref>"CXLIV: Sonet" lines 1-4, in Grabowiecki 1893, p 136.</ref> I added to Sebastian Grabowiecki (along with a full citation of the book).

As I said, I hope we'll see a lot more edits from you. If you come across (or create) anything you think needs my help, please let me know. Thanks. Phil wink (talk) 02:21, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Initial post.
:Response
::Response
:::Response
::::Response ...which will look like:

Initial post.

Response

Response

Response

Response. Eventually, this gets ridiculous, at which point an editor may add {{outdent}} which gives us:

And we can begin at the margin again. It's best not to get fancy, but when necessary, we can use this talk structure as an implicit outline structure to specify what we're responding to.

Response A

Responding to Response A

Someone else responding to Response A

I disagree with "someone else"

Response B -- someone responding to the original post (same "outline" level as Response A).

Please see Help:Using talk pages. Phil wink (talk) 20:44, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Czech alexandrine

Dear Phil wink, thank you for Your message and co-operation. I intend to write same more articles. There is another interesting form, worthy of a separate article in Wikipedia. It is Czech alexandrine. It is also tridecasyllable, but it has different rhythm (or even rhythms). It is more similar to French alexandrine than to Polish “trzynastozgłoskowiec”. Czech alexandrine, used widely in 20. century, is an exceptional metre on the background of modern Czech vesification as it is half syllabic and half syllabotonic (usually Czech metres are strictly syllabotonic as they were borrowed from German poetry). It is based on caesura formula 12(6+6) with an extra syllable in case of feminine rhyme. The general metrical pattern is:

oosSso||oosSso(s)

It can be seen as a fusion of iambic hexameter sSsSsS||sSsSsS(s) and dactylic tetrameter SssSss|SssSss(s). An important question is: What was the reason for establishing such an unusual pattern? The answer is: It was the pressure of normal Czech accentuation. In Czech language the first syllable of a word (or prepositonal group) is always stressed. In the beginning the metre was theoretically fully iambic, but even Karel Hynek Mácha (considered to be the greatest Czech poet), who first used it in his epic poem “May”, inserted many trisyllabic word into its lines.

V jezeru zeleném bílý je ptáků sbor,

a lehkých člůnků běh i rychlé veslování

SssSss||SssSsS

sSsSsS||sSsSsss

I know, Czech alphabet looks Chinese for English people (as it wrote Jerome K. Jerome in ‘’Three Men on the Bummel’’). The quantity of vowels (marked above the letter) in Czech syllabotonic verse is not taken into account, although it is an important part of rhythm. Please notice, than all kinds of words can be freely used in Czech alexandrine: 1-syllable ones (S) or (s), 2- syllable ones (Ss), 3- syllable ones (Sss) and 4- syllable ones (Ssss) – in different combinations, for example.

s|Ss|Ss|S||s|Ss|Ss|S

s|Ss|Sss||s|Ss|Ssss

Czech text of Mácha’s poem along English translation is online http://www.lupomesky.cz/maj/

The caesura formula is a good base for enjambment.

Píši vám, Karino, a nevím, zda jste živa,

zda nejste nyní tam, kde se už netoužívá,

zda zatím neskonal váš nebezpečný věk.

Jste mrtva? Poproste tedy svůj náhrobek,

aby se nadlehčil. Poproste růže, paní,

aby se zavřely. Poproste rozpadání,

aby vám přečetlo list o mém rozpadu.

(Jiří Orten, Sedmá elegie)

Sometimes a sentence runs from caesura to next caesura (as above):

Poproste růže, paní,

aby se zavřely.

Of course, some poets write strictly iambic hexameters (Vítězslav Nezval, Smuteční hrana za Otokara Březinu). However, they are regarded as too mechanical and monotonous. I can start working now on the new article but I decided to ask for Your advice before beginning to write. Perhaps it would help me to avoid many mistakes. (Anagram16 (talk) 22:04, 24 July 2016 (UTC))

Just a few initial notes...

• Can't wait to read the article. There are 3 main ways to start a new article, but I think the way you started the other 2 is fine. The other ways allow you to work on it outside of the main article space, but this is mainly desirable if (a) you think your first attempt will be so brief or unencyclopedic that it risks deletion or (b) you want to keep other editors' fingers off your work for a while before exposing it. If you're interested, I can point you to some documentation, but these problems don't really seem to apply to you, so I'd say do what you did before.
• "...seen as a fusion of..." seems a little too close to a proposal about its historical derivation (which I don't think is your point). If I'm understanding you correctly, you might want to say something more like "is equivalent in syllable count to both IH & DT (show scansions), but can accommodate both iambic and dactylic phrases, which would be excluded in one or the other of these stricter forms." I don't know -- just an idea. Actually, now that I think about this, I think this should be shown visually: a rough draft:

iambic hexameter:    s S s S s S | s S s S s S (s)
dactylic tetrameter: S s s S s s | S s s S s s (s)
Czech alexandrine:   o o s S s o | o o s S s o (s) (preserves all constants between the two)

...or alternatively...

Iambic hexameter:

s

S

s

S

s

S

|

s

S

s

S

s

S

(s)

Dactylic tetrameter:

S

s

s

S

s

s

|

S

s

s

S

s

s

(s)

Czech alexandrine:

o

o

s

S

s

o

|

o

o

s

S

s

o

(s)

...I'm not entirely happy with either table, but you see what I'm aiming for...

• Once you create a new article be sure to put links to your new article in other related articles that already exist. Finding these other articles will also give you a good idea of what categories you should tag the article with, and what WikiProjects should go on the talk page. This may seem like administrative busy work, but it really shows, not only that the article belongs in Wikipedia, but how it belongs. And it will help the new article get noticed.
• Much of my interest is with the scansion itself, and I don't believe Wikipedia has a guideline for syllabic verse. We could begin with my guidelines at WP:POETRY#Scansion, but this was optimized (as best I could) for English accentual & accentual-syllabic (or if you like, tonic & syllabotonic) verse, so I'm not confident it is the best foundation for this work. I'll start reviewing some wiki & non-wiki sources, and we'll see if we can develop a standard appropriate for syllabic (and quasi-syllabic) verse globally.
• If you are willing that this new article should also feature formal equivalent translations -- because some of the focus may be on the "micro-meters" within the line, then the rhythmic echoes will have to be even more minutely duplicated. But I'm up for the attempt if you are (but I'm counting on you to guide me if I'm failing to get something right).

I'll be spying on you to see how this develops, and of course will intrude if I think I have something helpful to add. Cheers. Phil wink (talk) 00:29, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Dear Phil wink, now I am going to collect some reliable sources for the new article. The best resolution would be, of course, to find sources in English but it can be difficult. I know about some texts by best Czech scholars on český alexandrín, for example: Miroslav Červenka, Český alexandrin, Česká literatura 41, 1993, č. 5, str. 459–513. You have a very good idea of displaying the three discussed metres one under another - similarities and differences are seen very well then. There is also another thing. Diagrams are often used when describing Czech alexandrine. Perhaps you know them very well. They show, that accentuation of the fourth syllable of a half-line is usually 100%, but accentuation of the sixth one is only abot 50%. Thank You once again. Perhaps I will start writing this week. (Anagram16 (talk) 11:37, 25 July 2016 (UTC))

You're right, English sources would be ideal, but quality is most important so use the best you can find, in whatever language that happens to be. Since I know only English, I've quickly checked my Gasparov (History 1996) and Stankiewicz in Wimsatt (Versification 1972) and his very similar entry "Slavic Prosody" in the Princeton Ency. (3rd, 1993) -- but as expected, these are just too general to offer real help on this specific meter. Regarding diagrams, I assume you mean the kinds that I would know from Marina Tarlinskaja. Initially I would not make these a top priority because I feel that most English readers are so unfamiliar with this method that it would take a lot of explanation within the article just to make sense of it. However, the more in-depth the article gets, the more such a visualization may be appropriate -- and if you get to the point where you're comparing the stress profiles of different authors, and you've got the germane statistics in front of you, then we'd be silly not to include such a chart. I assume any such chart you find will be copyrighted. I don't know what your graphic capabilities are, but if you like, I'll be happy either to create a graphic within Wikipedia or more likely in Excel and upload it -- of course you'll have to provide me the numbers to plot, but we can work all this out as the article progresses. Phil wink (talk) 05:51, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Dear Phil wink, I have found in the Internet an interesting paper on Estonian iambic tetrameter. I would not disturb You, but Estonian language is similar to Czech in case of accentuation on the first syllable: The Accentual Structure of Estonian Syllabic-Accentual Iambic Tetrameter by Maria-Kristiina Lotman, Mihhail Lotman https://ojs.utlib.ee/index.php/smp/article/viewFile/smp.2014.1.2.04/7068. It may be helpful. An example of Czech alexandrine is this short poem:

Hrál kdosi na hoboj, a hrál již kolik dní,

hrál vždycky navečer touž píseň mollovou

a ani nerozžal si oheň pobřežní,

neb všecky ohně prý tu zhasnou, uplovou.

Hrál dlouze na hoboj, v tmách na pobřeží, v tmách,

na plochém pobřeží, kde nikdo nepřistál:

Hrál pro svou Lhostejnost, či hrál spíš pro svůj Strach?

Byl tichý Pastevec, či vyděděný Král?

Hrál smutně na hoboj. Vzduch zhluboka se chvěl

pod písní váhavou a jemnou, mollovou…

A od vod teskně zpět mu hoboj vlhkem zněl:

Jsou ohně marny, jsou, vždy zhasnou, uplovou.

(Karel Hlaváček, Hrál kdosi na hoboj)

You can see the use of trisyllabic words. It is the scheme of the first strophe.

S|Ss|Sss||s|S|s|Ss|S

S|Ss|Sss||S|Ss|Sss

s|Ss|Sss||s|Ss|Sss

s|Ss|Ss|S||s|Ss|Sss

I think, You are right, that diagrams are too difficult for an unprepared reader. We should write an article of using diagrams in versology earlier and display diagrams of patterns not so complicated as the Czech alexandrine is. (Anagram16 (talk) 17:19, 26 July 2016 (UTC))

Encouraged by You I started editing an article about Czech alexandrine with many (Polish and Czech) sources. (Anagram16 (talk) 19:05, 26 July 2016 (UTC))

I've done a little copyediting -- mostly just style stuff, but there are a couple points at which I may have adjusted the sense a bit. I hope you'll review my changes to make sure I haven't distorted anything. Thanks. Phil wink (talk) 02:35, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Dear Phil wink, Thank You very much for reviewing my article. I have read its talk page. A critic says, it should be not a separate page. Well, it could be, but I can defend my poin of view. Let us forget about Czech alexandrine for a moment. I think that there should be (in the first place) separate articles on French alexandrine and English alexandrine, as they are completely different forms; the French one is syllabic, the English one is accentual. In European literature there is a whole family of metres named "alexandrine". French and Polish ones are syllabic, Czech is half syllabic and half accentual, German and Russian are syllabotonic and English is accentual (and not strict about counting syllables). Perhaps You know the poem "I built a monument for me not made by hand" by Alexander Pushkin. It runs:

sSsSsS||sSsSsSs

sSsSsS||sSsSsS

sSsSsS||sSsSsSs

sSsSsSsS

As far as I know, there is also Spanish alexandrine (Alejandrino) that is a symmetrical fourteener (see Spanish Wikipedia). I think the best idea is to let the article "Alexandrine" remain in its old place and make links from it to pages "Polish alexandrine", Czech alexandrine" and "Spanish alexandrine". (Anagram16 (talk) 11:37, 27 July 2016 (UTC))

I've proposed a split at Talk:Alexandrine#Proposal to split article. Now we sit back and wait for no discussion to happen! Phil wink (talk) 16:46, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Also, I don't know who says that the English alexandrine is tonic (as opposed to syllabotonic), but I don't buy it. They must either simply not know what they're talking about, or are including verseforms in their analysis which would better be considered separately (like, say, the pseudo-classical accentual dactylic hexameter?). Just my 2 cents. But if you happen to know why they'd make this claim, I'm genuinely interested. Phil wink (talk) 19:36, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Dear Phil wink, people who say that English verse is purely accentual mean that English verse is not as strict in counting syllables as French one, as there may be two syllables in weak position. Sometimes they say that Italian verse is not syllabic, because two vowels can be counted (by elision) as one syllable. Perhaps they don’t know much about English or Italian prosody. I know about problems with accentual dactylic hexameter, because in Polish literature there is no other one. In Polish there is no phonological quantity (it was in the 15th century). In Czech language it is. In fact in every Czech poem there are three things, (1) metrical pattern, (2) accentual rhythm and (3) quantity rhythm. In Czech literature there were attempts to write hexameters based on quantity, but majority of modern Czech verse is syllabotonic. I think, the general rule is: A given verse form (metre) in two languages is never the same. In Polish language syllable is stable, but the stress is not very strong. In Russian (although is close to Polish) on the contrary, stress is very strong and syllables are often reduced. (Anagram16 (talk) 22:01, 27 July 2016 (UTC))

I found something about Spanish alexandrine: "The metre is the Spanish alexandrine of fourteen syllable, which as a rule are carefully counted: this counting is a sign of culture and French influence." (The Literature of the Spanish People: From Roman Times to the Present Day by Gerald Brenan, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, First published 1951, p. 68, at books.google). If I knew Spanish I would write another article, but I don't read in the language. I think, it would be good, if somebody wrote about Spanish alexandrine, German alexandrine (Angelus Silesius) and Russian alexandrine. As far as I know, tridecasyllable was very popular in Latin poetry in late Middle Ages, too. I don't know much about Slovak poetry, but I can do some research. In Slovak literature there are pure syllabic poems, without any accents fixed, which occur (I think) extremely rarely in European versification. (Anagram16 (talk) 23:04, 27 July 2016 (UTC))

A couple notes

Inline references always go after punctuation (except in 1 or 2 special cases like referencing a phrase or sentence within parentheses<ref>...</ref>). First sentences of articles should be complete sentences, not dictionary-style fragments. Be sure to put titles of major works in italics. If you're interested, I have written up some of my personal reference preferences at User:Phil wink/Notes and references, but I must emphasize, this is not policy -- Wikipedia has resolutely refused to impose a universal style in this respect. Phil wink (talk) 01:37, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Dear Phil wink, Thank You for explanations. Every country and every Wikipedia has its own laws, rules, and regulations. I know that article about The Fall of Nineveh is very short (in comparision with the poem itself) but now everyone can expand it. Perhaps Edwin Atherstone's poem is not a masterpiece, but it exists and should not be passed over. Another thing, in small East European literatures sometimes ten pages long poems are called national epics, and The Fall of Nineveh is sixty times longer. Of course, value of a poem depends not only on its lenght, but usually a masterpiece is at least one hundred pages long. The greatness of English literature is in the fact, that there are many epic poems. In Czech literature there is perhaps only one great epic poem - it is a translation of John Milton's Paradise Lost made by Josef Jungmann. Maybe The Fall of Nineveh read today is more interesting as some scenes in it resemble tragic events of the 20th century. Atherstone described Sardanapalus not knowing that Hitler would be similar to Assyrian king. The shocking scene of execution of war prisoners in Atherstone's poem was repeated during the Second World War many times and so was reenacted burning the concubines alive. They say, every poet is a prophet. Thanks for Your help once again (Anagram16 (talk) 13:41, 29 July 2016 (UTC)).

Translations

I'm still not convinced of the utility of untranslated verse excerpts in articles. I'm not at all against providing examples (Ottava rima needed your Tasso/Fairfax text like a desert needs water), but the vast majority of readers will not gain anything from a text they can't read. Ideally, we'd provide professionally-translated texts, but for the literatures in question, these translations will pretty much be copyrighted or nonexistent. I've glanced at WP:FAIRUSE and, if we're taking it seriously, I doubt these copyrighted translations would pass the test very often anyway. In the spirit of Yes, and... I'm suggesting that you and I might collaborate on translating some of these verse texts for Wikipedia. You've already seen my work on the 3 I've already tried, and I hope you thought they were at least OK. I've looked at some of the others, but I'd definitely need more help than Google is giving me if I were to try more. I have a few ideas in mind for how we could best attack this problem, and I've just now created the template {{Verse translation}}, which I think will be useful whether or not we pursue a collaboration. Let me know if you're interested. Oh, and feel free just to call me Phil; all my friends do.

Also, probably you're already aware of this (I haven't been checking), but the gold standard for public domain is: published before 1927 + author dead for at least 70 years (and this includes any edition we get the texts from), so the more the original texts can adhere to this, the better. Phil wink (talk) 21:52, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Phil, I know about laws 70+ and I usually put only texts much older (especially form 19th century). That is why we can't freely quote for example poems by Vítězslav Nezval or Vladimír Holan (and we can thouse by Jiří Orten, who died in 1941). Another thing is the utility of untranslated verse excerpts. It would be better to provide every original text with translation (in verse or prose). I think original stanzas should be put in the article (nobody can talk about metre using only translations), but a translation or at least a summary of the quoted fragment should be placed under it. I think original quotation is always the best proof for a statement. But - You are right - a reader is not interested in text, he doesn't understand or even can't read aloud. I don't know Arabic, but sometimes I read about Arabic poetry, when an author is so polite to write Arabic sentences with Latin letters. Of course, we can try to translate. I will also try to find (old and not protected by law) traslations in the Internet. Next thing, maybe we should scan quoted lines. Perhaps an average Englishman does not understand, why the letter i in Polish sometimes make a syllable and sometimes does not.

I mean something like this: Lit|wo|oj|czy|zno|mo|ja|ty|jes|teś|jak|zdro|wie (Adam Mickiewicz's Pan Tadeusz, first line). (Anagram16 (talk) 22:32, 3 August 2016 (UTC))

Phil, thank You for reviewing St. Simeon Stylites (poem). I think Stanisław Grochowiak and his poem deserve a place in English (that is World) Wikipedia. If he had not died 42 years old, he could have been a candidate for Nobel Prize. (Anagram16 (talk) 22:56, 3 August 2016 (UTC))

I agree both original + translation is far superior to either alone. I'll get back to you on collaboration... I'm going to try to work out a little system (I like systems!). Regarding adding scansions, I would be a huge hypocrite to pretend I didn't like them. However, I think these too must be added conservatively: a couple of scanned lines with some discussion about what the metrical point is, are worth more than a sonnet with every line scanned. I think what we've ended up with in the 2 lines by Karel Hynek Mácha in Czech alexandrine is just about ideal: very little scansion, but it encapsulates what the line is capable of.

Out of curiosity: Obviously you know Polish, Czech, and English. Anything else? If you want to (you certainly don't have to) you can advertise your languages on your user page using WP:Babel. Cheers. Phil wink (talk) 23:31, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

I speak Polish, read Czech and English, know something about Slovenian. I can read Slovak, too. I had lessons of Russian but I was never good at it. I like Latin, but I don't read easily Latin texts. Some years ago I had lessons of Old Church Slavonic (written in original Early Cyrillic alphabet or Glagolitic alphabet, but reading the last-mentioned was not obligatory), but I don't remeber much of it. I don't know other languages, but I think I should quote Italian or Portuguese text, if they are important (and they surely are) for the people who know these languages. (Anagram16 (talk) 23:50, 3 August 2016 (UTC))

Hi. Thanks as always for your recent edits. Did you see my note at User talk:Phil wink/Translation workshop? Of course you don't have to pursue this if you don't want to, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of it. Cheers. Phil wink (talk) 21:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

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Jacek Baluch

Hi. I just took a look at your newest article. As you probably know, Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons are judged more strictly than others. A few more inline citations would be good, but especially, if you can, one for "short poems regarded (by himself) as pure nonsense". I have no doubt this is correct (and I also think it's the kind of information that should be in the article), but because it is claiming to reflect Baluch's own opinion, and especially because this opinion could be seen as reflecting negatively on himself (this is of course a wrong interpretation, but someone will nevertheless make it!), I think the statement really needs an inline citation. Thanks. Phil wink (talk) 15:46, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Phil, I am still at home. I know that writing articles about living people is like walking across quicksands, but i think that some people should have biographies in Wikipedia. I expanded my article and added some sources (in Czech and Polish). I wrote about award and the nomination for professor by the president of the Republic of Poland. One source is in English - about Baluch's important role in the making of the Visegrad Group. Thank You for reviewing my article. (Anagram16 (talk) 22:25, 6 August 2016 (UTC))

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Adam Asnyk

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Rhyme

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Stvoření světa

You responded to my talk page note, but did you notice I also posted my preliminary translation, with comments? Phil wink (talk) 18:10, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

I've added the translation to Spenserian stanza. Thanks again for your help. Can you tell me either which stanza # or which line #s this is? (I couldn't view the link correctly in my browser, so I couldn't double-check, and I'm assuming this is not the entire poem.) Thanks. Phil wink (talk) 20:50, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

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A couple of editing notes

1. When you edit, it doesn't matter too much what you enter into the edit summary -- however to me (and I think to most Wikipedians) "minor edit" means truly minor: "I added a comma", or "corrected 1 or 2 misspelled words". Adding or changing content is (in my opinion) not minor, and sooner or later someone may find such an edit summary evasive or deceptive. Even if it's genuinely a minor edit, something like "typo" or "ce" (short for copyedit) or "format" will be more informative to anyone reviewing.
2. I notice you typically edit an entire page at a time (that is, you seem to be clicking on "Edit" or "Edit source" at the top of the page). There is nothing wrong with this at all. However, I personally often find it much easier to edit only the specific section in question. This is done by clicking on the little "Edit" or "Edit source" links next to each article heading. There are 2 main advantages: 1) when you're editing, you only see the section you're interested in, and 2) the heading of that section automatically shows up in the edit summary, which gives slightly more specific information to anyone reviewing your edits. Again, it is not at all necessary to do it this way, and for some edits it would be impossible or inconvenient -- but I personally find it so useful that I wanted to make sure you knew about it. Phil wink (talk) 04:07, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

I answer here to keep conversation together. Thanks for Your guidelines. Giving "minor edit" I just meant, the things I added are not much important and that they don't change anything that was written earlier (that would be a serious change). Next thing, I understand that in long articles it is hard to find a change. So I will edit sections (when they are) or even divide the article into sections, when needed. The most important thing is to help people who help us. As many articles are getting longer (and are about many literatures) new sections are necessary. (Anagram16 (talk) 08:22, 22 August 2016 (UTC))

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Palndrome

Hello! Thanks for the Polish and Czech palindromes! But should they be in the chapter Non-English palindromes? --Risto hot sir (talk) 11:32, 1 October 2016 (UTC) Thank You for thanking! By the way: what does "Zakopane na pokaz" mean? Risto hot sir (talk) 18:03, 1 October 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Risto hot sir (talk • contribs) 18:02, 1 October 2016 (UTC) The story of Zakopane is very interesting! I've tried to create Polish palindromes with the help of Polish-Finnish dictionary, but don't know if they're correct. My daughter's good friend lives in Warsaw, a really fine lad I've met in Iran. Risto hot sir (talk) 20:54, 1 October 2016 (UTC) Yes, I'm Finnish. Meters undid our texts, so I started a discussion on the Palindrome's talk page. Your opinion would be valuable! Risto hot sir (talk) 10:40, 2 October 2016 (UTC) Good work, my friend! I can see You know poetry very well. I've written that Naaraan, and it's been half a year the most popular in poetry at eKirjasto (library) in Finland, although it's a palindrome book. In fact, the rhymes developed for remembering the story (before there was writing). If the people would have used palindromes, the story would have changed at all! Did I go too far bringing the articles Palindrome and Football together? Risto hot sir (talk) 10:54, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

You are right with mnemotechnic function of rhyme, rhythm and alliteration. In ancient times poets remembered all their poems. This kind of poetry is still alive in the south Europe, especially in Serbia and Montenegro. Many epic poems in Central Asia (in Turkish languages I think) were recorded not earlier than in 20th century. Unfortunately, Finnish (or Estonian) poetry is not often discussed outside Finland. I don't think, You went too far with bringing poetry and football together. It was just a reference to an article written earlier. Let's take another example. Everyone knows that the American are good at space travels and they only landed on the Moon. But many other nations fly to the orbit (Russian, French, Chinese, Japanese, Indian) and they should be talked about at English Wikipedia, too. English literature was created not only by English people. Can You imagine English literature without Joseph Conrad (born in Poland) or Karen Blixen (born in Denmark) or modern French poetry without Guillaume Apollinaire (born in Rome but of Polish origin) or Tristan Tzara, a Romanian. (Anagram16 (talk) 12:33, 3 October 2016 (UTC))

Well written! I like the Spanish Palindrome-article with many (but not too many) examples. You should add some Polish and Czech ones there! About 1000 watchers per day! Can You draw/photograph well or know people who can? I have a book for Finnish children (Taasko hoksaat!), where palindromes are used to make the child understand the connection between phones and letters. We could make a Risto hot sir (talk) 19:01, 4 October 2016 (UTC)multilingual book for all the children (and adults who cannot read) in countries where Latin (or Cyrillic) alphabets are used. It doesn't matter what Your mother language is, but the words and short sentences must be phonemic. Is this a too crazy idea? Risto hot sir (talk) 19:01, 4 October 2016 (UTC) I wrote to You on my side. Risto hot sir (talk) 10:00, 5 October 2016 (UTC) Look at the yesterday's statistics: over 3400 visitors and nearly 1000 at Spanish Wiki! I added Tym, but not the first name, 'cause my keyboard doesn't have the polish L. What does "a to idiota!" mean? Of greek language: the arabs copied and translated the important texts meanwhile Europe lived the dark ages. The center of arts and science was in the Middle East 'till the mongols came. Risto hot sir (talk) 07:38, 6 October 2016 (UTC) Hi! I added palindromes to Eesti-Wiki, but still I can't find all Czech and Polish letters! Could You help? Spanish people surprised: 6000 visitors yesterday! - I'm not optimistic with the Fenno-Ugric people's future. Tatarstan will survive - they've got oil. Risto hot sir (talk) 11:01, 7 October 2016 (UTC) Terve! I looked at the Polish article, and that Finnish example is miserable. Would You please pick one or two sentences of the Spanish side and write them translated? Risto hot sir (talk) 15:17, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Hello! I love languages! Wojciech I know well, a popular musician, Hector, has made a song of him. The diamonds will be grinded to make them as symmetric as possible, so why not to do so with words and sentences, too? My main hobby now is a book of Finnish popular music; the main idea is to show how the language and subjects have changed during 115 years (1100 pages at the moment - but no publisher yet). - There's an interesting discussion going on on Swedish palindrome-side. The Swedes have understood the phonemic aspect, but why can't they find examples of their mother language? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Risto hot sir (talk • contribs) 12:04, 10 October 2016 (UTC) Risto hot sir (talk) 12:05, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Very interesting! Do You know Golem? It was turned on/off by words "meth" and "emeth". I have written a short story where Golem is placed to Bothnia and the commands are "elä" (lives) and "eli" (lived). Wow, it works in English, too! I hope I have a couple of genes from Mirkka Rekola, my father's cousin. There are English and French wiki-articles about her. Risto hot sir (talk) 08:35, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Good morning! I translated Mirkka's books' names, thanks for the suggestion! In the summer there was an article of me, too, but it was deleted "unnotable", 'cause no English references were to be found. The text can although be seen at Wikipedia Republished and machine-translated at Esperanto-Wiki. Risto hot sir (talk) 06:55, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

I looked at Mirkka Rekola and it is good. Of course, there are some red links to be filled with articles. I don't know anything about Finnish literary awards but You can write some of them. If You make these articles (with lists of persons awarded) You will be able to make links to Mirkka Rekola from them. It seems very important, how many articles link to a biographical one. Not many people search for "Mirkka Rekola" (outside Finland, of course) but many people follow links. I know problems with articles not provided with good sources. A woman saw some mistakes in the article about her and was not allowed to correct it. (Anagram16 (talk) 10:48, 12 October 2016 (UTC))

Palindrome

Notifying all named accounts who have edited this article this year. There is a discussion of whether this article should contain foreign language palindromes. If you would like to comment the thread is Talk:Palindrome#Non-English_palindromes_2 Meters (talk) 20:59, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

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Simple English palindromes

Tere! All the non-English palindromes have been undone! I'm so angry and started a discussion! - Did You notice Mirkka's homepages? There are many poems translated to English. --Risto hot sir (talk) 16:35, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Ciao! What's this word in Polish? I don't know anything about blogging, but have written many palindrome (and other) pages to Suomi-Wikiquote. Risto hot sir (talk) 07:00, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Bonjour! Thanks for information about blogs! Must think... but I'm used to publish well thought material, not what I at the moment think about. Something more about Mirkka: she was a lesbo, her father was a member of the fascist organization Lapuanliike. So Mirkka had to express herself in a "difficult" way. Now You understand that "I love You, I will tell it to everyone" means more than in the usual way. Risto hot sir (talk) 07:55, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Unbelievable fine work, thank You, it looks professional - although I can't understand the text! And I'm considering the blog, but the next weeks are too busy. Risto hot sir (talk) 13:48, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Mirkka's father, Eero, was in that gang that made MP Hakkila to sit in ant nest. This episode was filmed to Täällä Pohjantähden alla (based on the novel of Väinö Linna). - Juhani Rekola is another writer in our extended family. He was 1½ years old when the Reds put his father, Jukka, into Kyröskoski (rapids) in the winter of 1918. They put a sign on his neck: "Good journey to Rekola". Only his wedding ring was found much later. This happened in "Civil", "Class" or "Freedom" war (depending on which side You fought). Juhani became a priest. During the WW2 he wondered why Christian praying fathers died meanwhile a swearing bachelor returned from the front with no wounds. Later Juhani worked as priest among the Finnish alcoholists (Slussen's guerillas) in Stockholm. The theme in his essays is often the cruelty of the God. The Heaven is described as a crack in Hell's wall. Unfortunately there's an article of him in Suomi-Wiki only. Risto hot sir (talk) 17:09, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Poland and Finland had much common: unfriendly neighbours in the west and in the east. King Sigismund ruled both countries in the 16th century- and we were parts of Russia 'till 1917. Could someone imagine in the beginning of WWI, that Germany AND Russia would lose? But this happened, and Poland & Finland became independent. - Last summer we visited Gdansk and Sopot, beautiful cities! Risto hot sir (talk) 08:54, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Moi! I'm really enjoying making simple questions in simple English Wiki! The editors know so little about linguistics. You surely will laugh reading their comments! Want to join hunting? Risto hot sir (talk) 09:52, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Good links in S.E. Wiki! The Daft one doesn't work now. The editors are now discussing of accepting other languages to German Wiki. Risto hot sir (talk) 09:48, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Trastuit! Do You know the band Clutch from Maryland? It's singer, Neil Fallon, uses alliteration, onomatopoetic words among good rhymes. He's the best one in the English hard rock scene, I think. And "Jumpin' Jack Flash" is also very impressive! Risto hot sir (talk) 14:14, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Peter Steele's (Type O Negative; with the flag of Vineland) pronunciation is magnificient, too! Risto hot sir (talk) 14:52, 23 October 2016 (UTC) Moro! The Czech fellows have expanded Your Mirkka-article. Of alliteraton: my favourite Finnish singer-songwriter at the moment, Jukka Nousiainen (Räjäyttäjät,) wrote this one: "Mullon miljoonan megavatin myyräkuume" (I'm suffering of million megawatts' mole fever"). Risto hot sir (talk) 10:19, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Moikka! I've written my final arguments to Palindrome(discussion). Did I forget something? Risto hot sir (talk) 16:36, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Merci! Maybe I should have mentioned more non-English cities' names in the States: Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Pasadena, Sacramento, Albuquerque, Phoenix, El Paso, Toledo, Las Vegas, Miami, Tallahassee, Amarillo, Laredo, Omaha, Chicago, Savannah, Orlando. Alameda, Minneapolis, Topeka, Boise, Baton Rouge... but let it be! Yesterday I started to write to Wikiquote: definitions of love in recordings. Of war i Found only a few. If You know missing English songs, please add those! Risto hot sir (talk) 12:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Dear Anagram16! The article "Words displayed the first time in recordings" is now under delete voting at Wikiquote. I'll appreciate if You could check that one. Risto hot sir (talk) 12:12, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Suur tänu! Could You then vote either DELETE or SAVE? I can make the article much longer, 'cause I've got more than 100 000 English songs in my Excel, but under threat of deletion I won't write very eagerly! Risto hot sir (talk) 19:16, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Grazie! Now there's a text (on purpose?) that You "have made few or no other edits outside this topic". I can see You've made 6323 edits at Wikipedia (what's the main Wiki-project), of these are 460 at English Wikipedia. This should be mentioned! The arguments of the English editors are at "I feel like" -level. This UDScott, by the way, deleted without public discussion my list of palindrome first and surnames (over 1000 examples). Risto hot sir (talk) 06:44, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Hej! Your Wikiquote-articles are excellent! So why don't You write to Polish Quote? Last 10 days' statistics show that Finland leads Poland 2998 - 1321 per day. Guess who has been active! Risto hot sir (talk) 12:44, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Grüss Gott! I moved palindrome names (first and surnames) to Suomi-quote ("Palindrominimiä") - and no one has wanted to delete it. If You know Polish palindrome names (like Czech "Pilip"), I'll be very glad! Risto hot sir (talk) 10:08, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Mahlzeit! Very interesting, now I know at least one place to visit in Wroclaw! Risto hot sir (talk) 08:51, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Morjens! If You think it's wise to copy the palindrome names to Polish Wikipedia, You may do that. Those are multilinguistic - most Finnish ones, like it's the case in all palindromes. Risto hot sir (talk) 11:15, 28 November 2016 (UTC) Well, not to Polish Wikipedia but Wikiquotes! Risto hot sir (talk) 07:15, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes I have. Now I'm writing Finnish spoonerisms - like in English: flock of bats - block of flats, wave the sails - save the whales etc. It's much easier in our language. How's the case in Polish? Risto hot sir (talk) 18:04, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Terve! That's exactly the same in Finnish: innocent words or sentences change bizarre. The English examples can be funny, but I can't see anarchy. We change the first syllables of the words, like "Tervo pestattu - pervo testattu" (Jari Tervo is a famous writer and tv-face; "Tervo hired - pervo tested"). Or "kunnanhallitus - Hannan kullitus" ("commune's government - Hanna's fucking"). I've found about 2000 Finnish spoonerisms and written the best ones to "Sananmuunnoksia". The sexy ones have been searched thoroughly, but I'm writing new ones of politicians and famous persons. Risto hot sir (talk) 11:15, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Very good examples, I must check if the libraries have books of those writers! Someone - I don't remember who - said that language makes the borders in the universe. One of my best loved writers is Daniil Harms. Unfortunately his books were collected of pieces of papers, and much got lost. In the 20's the art climate in Russia was very open-minded, but everything changed rapidly after Lenin's death. Some other favorites of mine are Hesse, Vonnegut, Kafka, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Veikko Huovinen, Mika Waltari and Ernest Thompson Seton - his book Two little savages I read 7 times as a boy. Risto hot sir (talk) 19:29, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

::Never heard. Risto hot sir (talk) 13:36, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Juha Kotonen has written a palindrome sentence including 11 211 words. It's the world record, I think. But I prefer palindromes that could be in a novel - and people would not notice they're palindromes. Risto hot sir (talk) 12:24, 10 December 2016 (UTC) Hyvää Joulua (Xmas) ja onnellista Uutta vuotta (New year)! "The words displayed..." is still there, and I've found some more. Also have I made Sananmuunnoksia lapsille (spoonerisms for children). Why is it so difficult to create those compared to dirty ones? This English one is really bad: "Hairway to Steven" (Butthole Surfers)! Risto hot sir (talk) 09:56, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello! I hope Your year has started fine! Now they're about to delete my sides again. If You want to take a look, it's Songs of love in recordings, etc. I'm feeling very angry, and You will see that in the text! But the articles have found their home at fi-Wikiquote. Risto hot sir (talk) 22:14, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for participating! Yes, it's pretty sure that those will be deleted, but I've copied them to fi-Wikiq. There they're in shelter, I think, 'cause these fingers I'm watching now have written half of the Suomi-Wikiquote. The Englishmen do not want to discuss about the scope of en-Wikiquote. We have sayings: "ei nähdä metsää puilta" ("sees only the trees, not the forest") and "pilkunparittaja" ("pimp of the comma") - most people seem to concentrate on formal things, not the essential. This is one of my favourite quotes: "Jos hinta on sama, valitsevat ihmiset yleensä mieluummin hyvän kuin huonon, ellei kyseessä ole hengentuote" ("If the price is the same, the people usually buy the good one instead of the bad one, unless it's a book" (Samuli Paronen). --Risto hot sir (talk) 10:54, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

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Featuring your work on Wikipedia's front page: DYKs

Thank you for your recent articles, including Sonnet on the Great Suffering of Jesus Christ, which I read with interest. When you create an extensive and well referenced article, you may want to have it featured on Wikipedia's main page in the Did You Know section. Articles included there will be read by thousands of our viewers. To do so, add your article to the list at T:TDYK. Let me know if you need help, _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:02, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject assessment tags for talk pages

Thank you for your recent articles, including Sonnet on the Great Suffering of Jesus Christ, which I read with interest. When you create a new article, can you add the WikiProject assessment templates to the talk of that article? See the talk page of the article I mentioned for an example of what I mean. Usually it is very simple, you just add something like {{WikiProject Keyword}} to the article's talk, with keyword replaced by the associated WikiProject (ex. if it's a biography article, you would use WikiProject Biography; if it's a United States article, you would use WikiProject United States, and so on). You do not have to rate the article if you do not want to, others will do it eventually. Those templates are very useful, as they bring the articles to a WikiProject attention, and allow them to start tracking the articles through Wikipedia:Article alerts and other tools. For example, WikiProject Poland relies on such templates to generate listings such as Article Alerts, Popular Pages, Quality and Importance Matrix and the Cleanup Listing. Thanks to them, WikiProject members are more easily able to defend your work from deletion, or simply help try to improve it further. Feel free to ask me any questions if you'd like more information about using those talk page templates. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:02, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Wiktor Jarosław Darasz

The article Wiktor Jarosław Darasz has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (biographies) requirement. If you disagree and deprod this, please explain how it meets them on the talk page here in the form of "This article meets criteria A and B because..." and ping me back through WP:ECHO or by leaving a note at User talk:Piotrus. Thank you.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:10, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

I am not an administrator, and we can start a discussion per WP:AFD. I am just expressing my concerns about this bio not meeting WP:NBIO requirement. Not all translators are notable. I doubt his article would survive on Polish Wikipedia, either. Unless he won some awards or his translation were themselves subject of articles, he may simply not be encyclopedic. The difference between Darasz and Baranczak is no just how much they did, it is also that Baranczak got somewhat famous and was subject of news articles and mentioned by academics. With all due respect, a person like Darasz is just doing their work, and if they don't get noticed by others - even as little as having a short paragraph about himself in an independent work (i.e. not related to his publisher/employer), they are not, with all due respect, deserving an encyclopedic article.

As for templates, as with 99% of wiki stuff, everyone can add them and update them. So feel free to tag your articles, and anything else.

Thank you for your contributions, and Happy New Year! --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 17:15, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Václav Bolemír Nebeský) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Václav Bolemír Nebeský, Anagram16!

Wikipedia editor Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Thanks for the interesting article. I have added some more sources from acadmic works in the english language- just to let you know you might be able to expand the article slightly with them- not counting the tonne of Czech books I saw online (search for him in 'Google Books'. cheers!

To reply, leave a comment on Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi's talk page.

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Car

Tervehdys Ag16! There's a funny conversation going on - about "car" in a palindrome (my favourite subject). Böri really has guts! Risto hot sir (talk) 15:02, 13 February 2017 (UTC) They are not nonsense, I agree, but the sentence without "car" is better - ask any famous writer! This conversation about one palindrome shows the lack of really good palindromes in English. Look at the removed French ones! Risto hot sir (talk) 23:16, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I don't know French but I believe thay are good ones. In English it should be easy to write palindromes because they have only twenty six letters, without all these signs thare are in Polish, Czech or German. Lately I got to know about another play on words. The name of "Mensagem" ("The Message", the most important book by Portuguese poet Fernando Pessoa) is said to be derived from Latin sentence "Mens agitat molem" meaning "mind moves the mass" (MENS AGitat molEM). (Anagram16 (talk) 02:50, 17 February 2017 (UTC))

Pessoa is very interesting! Nor do I understand French, but the translations show they're good. And that's the point: the Englishmen should know that palindromes can be poetic, aphorisms etc. Even the alien in Vonnegut's novel might have used palindromes by stepping and farting! Risto hot sir (talk) 23:07, 18 February 2017 (UTC) I suggest Cat's Cradle and Breakfast of the Champions first. I will never forget these books, they've changed my thinking! Risto hot sir (talk) 00:46, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Look what has happened on the Palindrome-site! Now please add some Polish and Czech ones! Risto hot sir (talk) 20:11, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Fine! I'll try to write some Alivaltiosihteeri's palindromes (with references) there. Let's see... at least Llewelyn has understood the point! Risto hot sir (talk) 18:16, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

That site is familiar! The Polish sentence is superb! Must be included! Risto hot sir (talk) 18:54, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ana! There's now an article about Mirkka at Wikiquote. UDScott kindly made it better visually. Mirkka is the only Finnish poet there... Risto hot sir (talk) 12:59, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Good day! I wrote some other poets' stuff, too, but they've drawn away - for reason. However, two editors interested in writing new articles about Finnish poets - as You can see on the main page/new articles. Also have I written about some bands (Sentenced, Babylon Whores, HIM and Mana Mana). Poet Uuno Kailas is one of my favourites, especially this one that goes something like this: "What is this?" / You ask. / We've just changed the eyes. / You got my former eyes, / I got Yours. // Your eyes were cruel when I came, / my eyes suffering. / Now I have Your cruel eyes - / and You my suffering ones. - Do You like it? I think this is what happens to us on the next level, is a phase in human souls' development. --Risto hot sir (talk) 09:20, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

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Disaster

Dobry wieczor! Terrible things have happened in fi-Wikiquote: some editors decided that all quotations of poems and texts in music since 1946 are against the Finnish law. And not only that: even the translator must have been dead 70 years. They deleted Lorca's poems, 'cause the translator died last year. Now we must read Mirkka's, for example, poetry at en-WQ! What's the situation in Poland? Risto hot sir (talk) 15:29, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

It's insane! I've criticized en-WQ due to having so much trash, but I was wrong. It's better to have too much material than no information at all. There You can quotate 250 word poems from existing people. That's fair! But You must be brave and willing to struggle in courts to achieve this freedom. Risto hot sir (talk) 21:08, 15 July 2017 (UTC) - Wrote Breakfast of Champions and G. G. Marquez -sites to de-WQ. They reminded of that 70 years' rule, but the articles are still available, maybe because they are almost the only new ones in July - and that chimpanzee as president and Zog are really full of irony. Risto hot sir (talk) 21:18, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Exactly! The laws that should protect the writers are now against them. An uncommercial writer has no opportunity to get known in Wikiquotes. The fair use principle in en-Wq is superior! In 250 words You can show how well You can write. By the way, my fairytale for children and adults will be published very soon, as e-book also, so You may see some pages of it in the internet. The painter is Karoliina Tapiovaara and the most poems has written my little sister Tuija Kuha. I'm eager to see how popular the book will be! Risto hot sir (talk) 22:29, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, You can write what a politician or sportsman says in a newspaper, but what Hermann Hesse, for example, tells in a poem is forbidden! Risto hot sir (talk) 23:34, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

My dear friend! I found Mirkka's 88 Poems (2 euros!) in a shop in Turku. Now You can read many examples at en-WQ. Risto hot sir (talk) 23:09, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, Anselm knew both Finnish and English perfectly. One of my favourites is Stanislaw Jerzy Lec, whose aphorisms I've tried to find to fi-Wq. Now I'm concentrating in spoonerisms: Sananmuunnoksia, Sananmuunnoksia lapsille (for children, so they could play with words) and Sananmuunnosnimiä - to parents to prevent them choosing wrong names to their children which might cause trouble in life. Risto hot sir (talk) 00:32, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi! Now You can see our book: just google "Muru ja Puru" and 20 sites may be shown. It's strange that the Google-books has the right to quotate so much while others must wait 70 years! Risto hot sir (talk) 09:32, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! I've got nothing against Google: it's good for all when information is available. Wish the copyright lawyers would understand that! - I also understand that I must prove the notability of Tapiovaara, but it takes time the book will be charted. Risto hot sir (talk) 17:03, 9 September 2017 (UTC) - Would You like to translate Muru and Puru in Polish? The poems are difficult to translate of course, but who knows poetry better than You? Risto hot sir (talk) 17:21, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello! I'm willing to translate the texts to English (with explanations) myself - and then You to Polish? Risto hot sir (talk) 18:38, 9 September 2017 (UTC) - The story is easy to translate, 'cause it's for children - includes some palindromes and spoonerisms (not necessary). And there are nearly 10 times more Polish speaking people than Finnish! Risto hot sir (talk) 20:48, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, children's poems are difficult to translate! But the text's words are simple and the sentences short. If someone translates the fairytale to English, and then from English to Polish, many thoughts will change. Alastaipale (where Muru and Puru live) is a village that means "down the journey"; so these are hard to understand without instruction. The sarcasms too! The text is less than 40 pages. Could we at least try with the first chapter, please! Risto hot sir (talk) 21:38, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Hola Ana! Visited Barcelona and found some interesting books like Japanese Death Poems and Nueva poesía de los Estados Unidos. A lot to write to Wikiquote! That city is very rich in culture - for example there's a park where the trees are named after Catalan poets.Risto hot sir (talk) 13:37, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi! I'm writing mostly at Wikiquote, not Wikisource. Fi-WQ has now 3000 articles, but that's not much compared to the Polish one. About five Japanese poets have I represented at en-WQ. My main work now is to write Latin and Finnish proverbs. There's a book including 16 000 Finnish proverbs - and it tells the cities where they from also. The site will be the longest in Wiki-world! Risto hot sir (talk) 20:10, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Tervehdys! If You look at the new sites in Wikiquote, You'll be surprised! I love haikus, they give so much to think with some words. Wikipedia has no information of most of these Japanese poets. There's also very much to defaultsort in WQ. Risto hot sir (talk) 11:15, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

And so many Japanese words are like Finnish (different meaning of course), like kana ("hen" in our language), iki ("forever") etc.--Risto hot sir (talk) 23:16, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

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New continents

Hello my friend! How are You! I've been banned forever (?) at fi-Wq - maybe for asking too much. Instead I've found nearly untouched continents: Latin and Estonian Wikiquotes. Never have I studied Latin, but there are more than 250 000 bytes at Finnish (and now Estonian) Wq:s, so it's easy to copy - and no translation is needed. Bought a book of Eino Leino, the texts are both Finnish and Latin, and another user joined the company and is very active!--Risto hot sir (talk) 21:26, 20 August 2018 (UTC) - Well, Latin is easier to Italians and Spaniards to learn. Did You read Leino's Nocturne in Latin? That poem may be the most loved in Finnish poetry.--Risto hot sir (talk) 22:00, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

What a treasure, thank You! I placed Nocturne and Lapland summer to en-Wikiquote.Risto hot sir (talk) 20:36, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

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Simberg

Hello Anagram16! Placed the painting of Hugo Simberg, Garden of Death, on the English Wikipedia (article Death). The folks there kindly searched a higher quality image. Then I added it to all wikis I could. Many have thanked, but about 20% reverted it, mostly not explaining why. Has the painting something that Catholics can't tolerate, 'cause Polish, Czech, Lithuanian and Catalan wikipedias didn't accept it? It seems that the major languages keep it. The situation is even better at wikiquotes. The Norwegian Wikipedia insisted that the name "should be written in perfect Norwegian". Italians, for example, translated it. Dutch Wp blocked me for "vandalism" after a couple of edits! Some wikis told that the article Death is only for physical event, they have pictures of skulls and bodies. More than 5000 years ago people understood that it's more than that. I think that Simberg's painting reminds there's no life without death. Our planet would have been overcrowded and destroyed long ago - or Hitler and all the mass murderers would be among us forever. - The other Simberg's painting, Wounded Angel, can be seen in many wikis (Angel).--Risto hot sir (talk) 18:40, 7 March 2019 (UTC) - Now the situation at Norwegian Wikipedia is OK!Risto hot sir (talk) 22:57, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

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